Today, I am pleased to present my second interview with Elizabeth Collins, the host of New Zealand Vegan Podcast. Elizabeth's vegan advocacy is based on Gary Francione's Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights. You might recall that Elizabeth was a guest on Episode 22 of the show.
In this interview, we discuss the following topics:
- the importance of nonviolence in vegan advocacy;
- why we think that confrontational tactics (such as disruptions and road blockades) are counterproductive to the animal rights movement;
- how living as vegans and educating others about veganism and animal rights works to shift us towards a vegan world;
- the state of the vegan movement in New Zealand right now; and
- a moral conundrum involving vegan cooking classes in NZ.
These are very important (yet admittedly controversial) topics. I ask that all listeners think carefully about what we say. If you disagree with us, I am sure that you will be kind and respectful in any responses that you may submit.
This episode of Always for Animal Rights will be broadcast next Wednesday at 4:30 pm. However, you can listen to it online any time!
How to listen to this episode
There are two ways you can listen to this episode.
- Listen to the episode on CKCU FM's website at https://cod.ckcufm.com/programs/553/49928.html.
- Listen to or download the podcast from Archive.org at https://archive.org/details/afar-december-2-2020.
You can also find Always for Animal Rights on Facebook and Instagram. If you'd like to receive an e-mail every time there is a new post on the AFAR blog, feel free to enter your e-mail address into the appropriate box in the right-hand sidebar of this site.
Go vegan, stay vegan, and let's remember to stand up and speak up for animal rights today and every day. Thanks for listening to the show!
This was very interesting, thank you!
ReplyDeleteJust thinking about Elizabeth's dilemma in regards to promoting (or not) the non-vegan chef giving vegan cooking lessons. If it were me, I would be inclined to promote him, as long as he agreed that I make it clear while promoting him that he himself is not vegan. These are the reasons I would do this:
- The long-term goal of having more people become vegan, and all it should entail, is advanced by offering gourmet vegan cooking classes, there would seem to be no doubt about that.
- It is likely that the chef himself will learn more about veganism by teaching the classes, and I know by my own experiences (putting on a vegan event!) that doing that sort of thing does make one more aware of the whole vegan picture. Imagine (maybe dreaming, but you really never know) if the chef ended up becoming vegan after teaching the class!
One other thing I'd like to mention on this topic, is that while there are some non-vegans who become vegan suddenly, maybe because of an experience, there are (I think) other people who come to it more slowly and incrementally. I wonder if non-vegans "making vegan choices" can actually be a powerful force for change. Today they may just be making one simple choice for that day or meal, but it is a step in the right direction and the result may be less internal conflict, and the next day or week or month they may make more and more vegan choices and discover that they feel happier and more at peace with those choices, and become vegan.
Anyway, I really liked the interview!
Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate that you listen to my show and think about these issues deeply.
DeleteI’d like to try to respond from an abolitionist vegan perspective, which is the approach that I have been adopting in my own advocacy.
Although it is true that some people take a long time to go vegan (and some, sadly, never get there), that doesn’t mean that it’s ethically okay to take “baby steps”. Think about it this way: how many animals have to die before we decide that we feel ready to go vegan? I think that none should.
Once we recognize the moral personhood of nonhuman animals, and we deeply understand that animals are not “things” for us to use, veganism becomes the obvious first step towards living in alignment with those values.
If you are unsure about whether you want to commit to the vegan ethic, I would encourage you to learn more about abolitionist veganism and animal rights (truly, Gary Francione’s work is excellent). Here, for example, you can purchase Gary Francione’s book Animal Rights: The Abolitionist Approach: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0996719237/.
Some people may find that they need to read, listen to, or watch pro-vegan content a little bit every day in order to keep themselves on track. If having a “daily vegan education” practice in your own life helps you go vegan and stay vegan, then that’s great.
In addition to that, you can participate in the vegan community, and perhaps sign up for a vegan recipe e-mail list or download a vegan app.
You can also get in touch with Sandra Higgins of Go Vegan World for advice and information: https://goveganworld.com/contact/.
For vegan advocates like me, it’s crucial to remind people that veganism is the moral baseline. If vegan advocates don’t remind the world of that, then we’ll never get a vegan world, and people will always be vegetarian, reduceatarian, or eating “happy” animal corpses.
I hope that explanation helps.
Take care,
Carolyn
Yes, I can understand that the "baby steps" approach isn't great ethically, and also it can lead to putting off becoming vegan. I find it interesting that some people become vegan suddenly, while others take longer, or as you said sometimes don't ever get there. It does make sense that it would happen quickly when one finds out the truth about animal exploitation... but then there are all the people who learn about the subject, and still don't become vegan.
DeleteI think the "daily vegan education" concept is actually quite a good idea, for me anyway, at least until one settles into new habits. The first time I heard the song (on one of your earlier podcasts) by Queen V, This is What Hell is Like, it really affected me, especially when I looked it up and also saw the video... of course. I know that sounds kind of simplistic, but maybe the fact that a song gets to a different part of your brain than other information sources has something to do with it? OK, again maybe this is silly, but when you find yourself singing that song during your day, it certainly is a good reminder of how you want to be in your life! I read that many people go vegan after hearing her song(s). You know, I think maybe the reason something like that is so effective, is that it is a simple message and appeals to our very basic emotions and sense of right and wrong. I really can't imagine how anyone could hear the song, how heartbreaking it is, and not at least get on the track to become vegan, to learn what to eat and the other aspects of being vegan... to say to oneself "whoa, something is wrong here!" As I said, the simplicity of it, just "why would you continue to do this???" And of course wrinting the song from the animals's (victims) point of view makes it impossible to ignore. Queen V is an amazing song writer...and what a way to reach people.
Thanks for the info about Gary Francione's book, and also Go Vegan World.
Having good resources is super helpful and encouraging.
Just one last comment -- I think everything Elizabeth and you were saying about nonviolence in vegan advocacy and also using non-confrontational methods, makes sense. It seems counterproductive to antagonize the very people you are trying to reach!
Thanks! Please keep up the fantastic work you're doing!
Sorry, I only read Elizabeth's comment just now. Right, for sure that is too bad about the chef's response to veganism. I'm so sorry to hear that.
ReplyDeleteThanks Carolyn and Elizabeth, you are much appreciated!
p.s. Yes!! I am (finally....arrrrgh!) going to get Gary Francione's books!!
Hi sorry I reposted under my name and NZ vegan podcast I thought the other account name might confuse people
DeleteOh yay that you are going to read his books, good on you!! :)
DeleteThanks Carolyn for having me on the show and for your response above. I had a conversation with the chef whose details I didn't go into. In the course of that conversation they stated catagorically that they don't see non human animals as moral persons, aand that veganism is a diet,period. They were not to be swayed on this. Why would I send people to someone who gives out a message that I completely oppose morally? The last thing I am going to do is send people towards messages like that.
ReplyDelete